(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]HA[6]KM[0.50]TM[0]OT[10x40 byo-yomi]
PW[nutngo]PB[Mogo]DT[2009-02-11]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
]RE[B+2.50]
;B[dd]BL[40]OB[10]
;B[dj]BL[40]OB[10]
;B[dp]BL[40]OB[10]
;B[pd]BL[40]OB[10]
;B[pj]BL[40]OB[10]
;B[pp]BL[40]OB[10]
;W[fc]WL[40]OW[10]C[Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
aware [2k\]: mogo crashed?
Sampi [2k\]: its thinking
chipper [-\]: looks more like nutn crash
Zvi [3k\]: mogo is using intimidation
Cipher [?\]: lol
chipper [-\]: Oh no wait.. Weird
FootofGod [3k\]: DAAAAAAAAYYYYYYUUUMNN
FootofGod [3k\]: good move
Capsule [-\]: it wants to emphasize that it is version 3.0.0
Hylebos [3k\]: Mogo: "Nuclear Tesuji now or later?"
Capsule [-\]: that means its serious business.
chipper [-\]: FootofGod, please do not type in all caps :)
Snowcone [-\]: who is playing as nutngo this time?
Zvi [3k\]: he was like "yey six handi" and then like "What? how did he possibly think of a move like f17??"
FootofGod [3k\]: i got my money on the computer
Q161 [19k\]: next move must be amazing
Capsule [-\]: F15
Q161 [19k\]: if it takes this long
chipper [-\]: nutngo is Li-Chen Chien
chipper [-\]: 1p
Zvi [3k\]: lol
Zvi [3k\]: he escaped
FootofGod [3k\]: omg, chipper is an admin? No way!
Capsule [-\]: Mogo died
Capsule [-\]: who knows CPR?
Zvi [3k\]: mogo escaped :o
Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
FootofGod [3k\]: Mogo, you dirty ditcher!
Sampi [2k\]: Mogo is right here
Isildur [4k\]: oops I didn't realize they were playing again immediately
]
;B[hc]BL[40]OB[8]C[Ten [6d\]: Stong
eoe [11k\]: 9d move
Snowcone [-\]: W has been 1p long time?
FootofGod [3k\]: this is a crazy game
Zvi [3k\]: i bet he took his time to log into tygem and cheat nutngo
]
;W[nc]WL[40]OW[10]C[FootofGod [3k\]: i would have lost by now
Q161 [19k\]: go Li-Chen Chien!!!
Capsule [-\]: O16
Capsule [-\]: think like a robot.
]
;B[fd]BL[40]OB[8]C[Capsule [-\]: :(
Cail [2k\]: ah, that must be it, mogo logs onto tygem and gives 6 handi to 6dan and plays nutngo's moves as w, then replays b's moves here
]
;W[qf]WL[40]OW[10]C[Zvi [3k\]: right
FootofGod [3k\]: ...so mogo is almost 1-2 dan, right?
]
;B[kc]BL[40]OB[8]C[Cipher [?\]: roundabouts if I remember
]
;W[oe]WL[40]OW[10]C[Snowcone [-\]: what cluster is it running?
Ten [6d\]: If black plays r17 now, I'll accept Cail's theory
Cail [2k\]: k4!
chipper [-\]: black will ignore
chipper [-\]: for k4
]
;B[qm]BL[40]OB[8]C[Cipher [?\]: ouch, wrong
Korlon [2k\]: Eh
chipper [-\]: :(
cherisse [2k\]: hmm what theory? o.o
Cipher [?\]: Cail [2k\]: ah, that must be it, mogo logs onto tygem and gives 6 handi to 6dan and plays nutngo's moves as w, then replays b's moves here Move 11
Cipher [?\]: that theory
shizu7 [13k?\]: is this the actuall game
Cipher [?\]: yes, shizu
]
;W[fq]WL[40]OW[10]C[shizu7 [13k?\]: thx
Battousai [-\]: i used to know someone that actually did that
Snowcone [-\]: for fun?
chipper [-\]: Let's move this subject out of here shall we?
]
;B[hq]BL[40]OB[8]C[chipper [-\]: Focus on the game :)
cherisse [2k\]: yeah i read someone about that kind of player :)
Zvi [3k\]: lot's of people did that :o that's why they got banned
Q161 [19k\]: move the subject he said!
eoe [11k\]: hm, o17 p15 r14 looks familiar
Zvi [3k\]: :\\
]
;W[cn]WL[40]OW[10]C[shizu7 [13k?\]: blk human or comp?
Q161 [19k\]: comp
eoe [11k\]: blk fungus
Cail [2k\]: please e5
Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
shizu7 [13k?\]: is white also comp?
Q161 [19k\]: no, white is pro
Cail [2k\]: er, f4 i mean
Zvi [3k\]: white is a player
Korlon [2k\]: C3!
]
;B[fp]BL[40]OB[8]C[Cipher [?\]: info on the game can be found here, for anyone interested. http://go.nutn.edu.tw/2009/
Korlon [2k\]: Bah, doesn't want to fight.
shizu7 [13k?\]: is the comp like the super computer in chess that gets better as you play it or does it hacve a set lvl?
Sampi [2k\]: 40 seconds is too quick for mogo
]
;W[cq]WL[40]OW[10]C[Cipher [?\]: only 30 seconds of that is for thinking
Hylebos [3k\]: Shizu, the former method doesn't work so well for Go.
eoe [11k\]: sampi, why is that?
Zahlman [1k\]: what is "nutn"?
]
;B[eq]BL[40]OB[8]
;W[cp]WL[40]OW[10]C[Cail [2k\]: abbreviation of the name of the university?
Q161 [19k\]: acronym for a univeristy
Cipher [?\]: National University of Taiwan Tainan
Sampi [2k\]: eoe: Mogo is very strong with lots of time
]
;B[kq]BL[40]OB[8]C[chipper [-\]: Cipher, National University of Tainan, Taiwan :)
Ten [6d\]: Who's been teaching Mogo some joseki?
Capsule [-\]: R3?
]
;W[qq]WL[40]OW[10]C[Sampi [2k\]: give it a couple of hours and it will surely win
Isildur [4k\]: wouldn't that be nutt?
Cipher [?\]: I meant that, Chipper. :p
nutngo2: NUTN is an abbrevitation of National University of Tainan, Taiwan.
Sampi [2k\]: Zal: are you asking who is playing?
Zvi [3k\]: ?
Zvi [3k\]: r3 so soon ?
]
;B[pq]BL[40]OB[8]
;W[qp]WL[40]OW[10]C[Capsule [-\]: not really
Hylebos [3k\]: Double wing formation.
Hylebos [3k\]: Gotta jump in some time.
chipper [-\]: against Mogo R3 is never too soon
Korlon [2k\]: There's no better move to invade
]
;B[po]BL[40]OB[8]C[Zvi [3k\]: yeah but i thought it could wait
nutngo2: The nutngo is a 1P Taiwanese Go players (Li-Chen Chien, 12 years old, male)
Zvi [3k\]: it gives alot now
Hylebos [3k\]: It should be a sente invasion, right?
yoyoma [1d\]: I didn't expect mogo to play Q6
FootofGod [3k\]: shoulda played tengen
yoyoma [1d\]: *Q5
Zvi [3k\]: he's 12? :O
Hylebos [3k\]: So, thus, no need to wait.
chipper [-\]: Young 1p :)
Korlon [2k\]: At the very least, white can do a reduce move after this
Sampi [2k\]: not that young
]
;W[cc]WL[40]OW[10]C[Zahlman [1k\]: TaiNan?
Zvi [3k\]: oh, i never said it's wrong. i'm assuming the moves i see are right and then asking why am i wrong :\\
]
;B[ec]BL[40]OB[8]C[Capsule [-\]: contrary to popular myth, 1ps do make mistakes.
Q161 [19k\]: heresy.
FootofGod [3k\]: as do 9p
Zvi [3k\]: lues capsule
Zvi [3k\]: lies
chipper [-\]: Contrary to popular myth, Pros do make mistakes :)
Zahlman [1k\]: lues as well as lies
chipper [-\]: That would've been better Capsule
pandanny [5k\]: isn't w 9p?
Zvi [3k\]: contrary to popular myth, pros are gods
Hylebos [3k\]: Capsule, what next?  Silver bullets don't slay dans?
Q161 [19k\]: blasphemy
]
;W[cd]WL[40]OW[10]C[FootofGod [3k\]: I don't make any mistakes
Sampi [2k\]: zal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tainan_city
Zvi [3k\]: lol hyle
Capsule [-\]: believe me, I saw it on Mythbusters.
newbug [4k\]: tainan is a good city.
chipper [-\]: White is 1p pandanny, He is Li-Chen Chien
FootofGod [3k\]: I always place the stone exactly where i intended ;-)
]
;B[ce]BL[40]OB[8]C[Zahlman [1k\]: hylebos, that requires shells... and slates
]
;W[be]WL[40]OW[10]C[pandanny [5k\]: I was confused with Fri 13
]
;B[cf]BL[40]OB[8]
;W[bf]WL[40]OW[10]C[Zahlman [1k\]: what time in taiwan, 3pm?
Sampi [2k\]: 2.19
]
;B[cg]BL[40]OB[8]C[Capsule [-\]: 14:17
Korlon [2k\]: All this invading... looks like a slow path to death.
]
;W[qc]WL[40]OW[10]C[Zvi [3k\]: all of it ?
Cail [2k\]: will mogo resign now that w has four corners?
Capsule [-\]: Black accidentally all the corners.
Zahlman [1k\]: he means that the net visual effect of it in aggregate... or something
nutngo2: The time in Taiwan is 2:17pm (2/11/2009)
]
;B[mj]BL[40]OB[8]C[Zahlman [1k\]: all four? is that bad?
Isildur [4k\]: heh
Sampi [2k\]: yes, like i said :P
Aimless [1k\]: W doesn't have all four yet.
Zvi [3k\]: r3 is not yet alive ? :S
matjet [2k\]: bottom right is sketchy
Capsule [-\]: L8
Cail [2k\]: w is pro, i just assume he'll manage somehow with r3
Zahlman [1k\]: L8 O_O how do you come up with that
Sampi [2k\]: b can kill lower right with s2
Zvi [3k\]: how to kill r3 ?
]
;W[gp]WL[40]OW[9]C[Zvi [3k\]: err?
Zvi [3k\]: s3 r2 ?
Zvi [3k\]: s2 r2*
FootofGod [3k\]: 10 gin
Capsule [-\]: prohibitive substance.
Sampi [2k\]: r2 s2 q2 
Zahlman [1k\]: g4 works? I thought it had to be g3
Zahlman [1k\]: sampi, then s1
]
;B[gq]BL[40]OB[8]C[Zvi [3k\]: ha??
]
;W[fr]WL[40]OW[9]C[Capsule [-\]: g3 f2 f5 e4 L8!
Zvi [3k\]: what is f2?
Korlon [2k\]: Sacrifice two stones instead of one
Zvi [3k\]: forcgin shape 
Zvi [3k\]: ?
Capsule [-\]: i forgot e2, but you get it.
Zahlman [1k\]: I think you accidentally a move out of your sequence sol
]
;B[er]BL[40]OB[8]
;W[fo]WL[40]OW[9]C[Capsule [-\]: yes, the WHOLE move.
Capsule [-\]: I anxiously wait for L8.
Sampi [2k\]: Zahl: looks like s2 r2 q2 s1 t2 still kills to me
Sampi [2k\]: i could be wrong
Archaic [1d\]: after this sequence
]
;B[ep]BL[40]OB[8]C[Archaic [1d\]: i anxiously await white g17
Archaic [1d\]: g16*
Zvi [3k\]: s1 t2 s6
]
;W[en]WL[40]OW[9]C[FootofGod [3k\]: hmm
FootofGod [3k\]: resign. Both colors.
Korlon [2k\]: S5 looks good enough to kill
]
;B[io]BL[40]OB[8]C[Zvi [3k\]: s5 q2 p2 s2 ko?
FootofGod [3k\]: play t3 and just see what happens
FootofGod [3k\]: thats my style
]
;W[dr]WL[40]OW[9]C[Korlon [2k\]: s5 q2 s2 s4 
Zvi [3k\]: you play blitz right ?
Zahlman [1k\]: what is w doing?
Q161 [19k\]: being pro
Sampi [2k\]: s2 r2 q2 s1 t2 s6 s7 ?
FootofGod [3k\]: being l33t
]
;B[go]BL[40]OB[8]C[Aimless [1k\]: Capitalizing on aji in sente.
Isildur [4k\]: woodgrain wins in that case
Isildur [4k\]: /
]
;W[gn]WL[40]OW[9]C[Zahlman [1k\]: l8 begins to make more sense
]
;B[hp]BL[40]OB[8]C[fringd [1k\]: i'mnot so sure d2 was really sente
Zvi [3k\]: i wasn't sure either but both players thought it was
Isildur [4k\]: oops, my connection froze the comments, and I was responding to something from half a minute ago =P
Zvi [3k\]: so probably was :/
FootofGod [3k\]: yeah, idk. Sometimes i just accept things
]
;W[kk]WL[40]OW[9]C[Capsule [-\]: no!
Q161 [19k\]: L9, close
katori15 [5k\]: 8...9 whatever ☺
Zvi [3k\]: lol
]
;B[gi]BL[40]OB[8]C[Capsule [-\]: g16
]
;W[id]WL[40]OW[9]C[Capsule [-\]: /fail
Zvi [3k\]: :S?
Zvi [3k\]: can black just l15 ?
katori15 [5k\]: g... j maybe german?
FootofGod [3k\]: nothing works against pros
Zvi [3k\]: good point
Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
Q161 [19k\]: dc?
Zvi [3k\]: see? intimidation
FootofGod [3k\]: SHUT UP mogo
FootofGod [3k\]: no kibitzing during your own game!
Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
Capsule [-\]: owned.
Isildur [4k\]: -_-
Zvi [3k\]: he's angry with j16
Q161 [19k\]: lol
Archaic [1d\]: mogo is trying to break free of its owner's restraints
FootofGod [3k\]: he'll malfunction and just start saying that and requesting undos
]
;B[ic]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[eb]WL[40]OW[9]C[FootofGod [3k\]: then make b2 bombers everywhere
Zvi [3k\]: lol he knows how to request an undo ?
Zvi [3k\]: err
Q161 [19k\]: yah :)
Zvi [3k\]: till that last part i was buying it
]
;B[fb]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[dc]WL[40]OW[9]C[Archaic [1d\]: boo
]
;B[gc]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[de]WL[40]OW[9]C[yoyoma [1d\]: mogo doing decently
]
;B[ed]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[bg]WL[40]OW[9]C[Capsule [-\]: really? I would hate to be in Black's shoes :)
yoyoma [1d\]: still it's leading though no?
Q161 [19k\]: id hate to be in either
Zvi [3k\]: don't you mean mainframe or something ?
antere [3k\]: mogo doesn't wear shoes
Capsule [-\]: touche.
]
;B[ch]BL[40]OB[7]C[Capsule [-\]: I think it's like a 2h game now?
Isildur [4k\]: I would get a laugh out of a bot opponent requesting an undo for a misclick.
Zahlman [1k\]: I would hate to be in mogo's hardware
Zvi [3k\]: lol
Zvi [3k\]: i wasnt to make "lamebot"
katori15 [5k\]: black has no shoes but does have ribbons
]
;W[ld]WL[40]OW[9]C[Zvi [3k\]: that asks undos for misclicks, or that escapes when losing badly
Zahlman [1k\]: wasnt = want?
Zvi [3k\]: yeah sorry
Zahlman [1k\]: maybe "lamerbot" sounds better
Q161 [19k\]: lulz
Zvi [3k\]: i'll consider that. you want in zahl ?
]
;B[ji]BL[40]OB[7]C[FootofGod [3k\]: and always uses "^^" and broken japanese and is just all around lame
Q161 [19k\]: how is w going to take away from b's center
]
;W[kd]WL[40]OW[9]C[antere [3k\]: like that
Zvi [3k\]: with a gun.
yoyoma [1d\]: kill L9
]
;B[pr]BL[40]OB[7]C[Dreamlight [17k\]: This is starting to get ugly.
FootofGod [3k\]: so far i havent seen mogo play one standout move
Isildur [4k\]: ah, now we see if r3 lives
antere [3k\]: look harder :P
katori15 [5k\]: might play i9.5 and watch Mogo crash
]
;W[ro]WL[40]OW[9]C[aware [2k\]: no need for standout - solid should be enough
FootofGod [3k\]: true
Isildur [4k\]: s2
Higanbana [?\]: no way white can live????
]
;B[nm]BL[40]OB[7]C[Aimless [1k\]: This looks ko-ish to me.
Julian [2k\]: Might as well test the bot. ;)
Zahlman [1k\]: if b ignores :)
]
;W[rm]WL[40]OW[9]C[Archaic [1d\]: o7 losing move
Higanbana [?\]: why is this game at the top?
Aimless [1k\]: Well... not any more.  :)
Zvi [3k\]: kgs arranged it or something
eboesch [1k\]: you misspelled d'oh-ish
]
;B[qn]BL[40]OB[7]C[Higanbana [?\]: like a tournament or something?
]
;W[rn]WL[40]OW[9]C[Q161 [19k\]: pro player playing against computer
Capsule [-\]: exhibition.
Zvi [3k\]: s2 now sente ?
KTJL [11k?\]: technology vs human brain
Q161 [19k\]: 1p vs mogo
Zvi [3k\]: oh, nvm
]
;B[gk]BL[40]OB[7]C[Archaic [1d\]: l11
Capsule [-\]: L11
Archaic [1d\]: j8
Capsule [-\]: fine, then...
Archaic [1d\]: i pick a different one then
Capsule [-\]: ok I keep L11
Archaic [1d\]: j7
]
;W[hn]WL[40]OW[9]C[Capsule [-\]: hehe
Capsule [-\]: /fail
FootofGod [3k\]: computers just... play different. It is so numerically sound... but there is something special about the awkwardness of human thought
]
;B[in]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[hl]WL[40]OW[9]C[Archaic [1d\]: computers are narrow minded
Aimless [1k\]: Numerically sound?  Might I point out O7?
katori15 [5k\]: Mogo won against a prohttp://www.cs.unimaas.nl/g.chaslot/muyungwan-mogo/
FootofGod [3k\]: no you may not. Good thing you asked
]
;B[lg]BL[40]OB[7]C[youth [4k\]: computers have trouble recognizing and attacking weak groups
Gikku [7k\]: are the pro players from Taiwan strong as pro players from other countries ?
Archaic [1d\]: ahhh
Archaic [1d\]: m13
Archaic [1d\]: myoshu
FootofGod [3k\]: I was mainly referring to chess, but... if done RIGHT
youth [4k\]: and defending weak groups (although they are strong at L&D)
Archaic [1d\]: will redden the pro's ears
darkinochi [5k\]: myoshu?
mmueller [4d?\]: W gained a lot already, this will be tough for B
Isildur [4k\]: what does m13 accomplish?
]
;W[ql]WL[40]OW[8]C[antere [3k\]: it loses, in sente
doduff [5k?\]: So who is playing this time?
brainiaq [3k\]: mogo's mojo
antere [3k\]: actually gote
aware [2k\]: do you have the nice percentage from fuego again, mmueller? ... those where really nice to have yesterday
Aimless [1k\]: It makes a pretty shape in conjunction with O7.  :P
Archaic [1d\]: hey footofgood
Higanbana [?\]: computers may master go, but they will never master kibitz
Archaic [1d\]: footofgod...
]
;B[pl]BL[40]OB[7]C[Capsule [-\]: sure they can
]
;W[qk]WL[40]OW[8]C[FootofGod [3k\]: never
Archaic [1d\]: u r saying chess progs have weaknesses?
mmueller [4d?\]: I have to enter te game
mollycat [8k\]: kibitz bot what a break thru
Isildur [4k\]: aimless: lol
Archaic [1d\]: in their intuition?
mmueller [4d?\]: But fuego is weaker on 19x19
Capsule [-\]: they only need to know "weak", "stong", "lol", and throw in random sequences.
Archaic [1d\]: cause...chess progs can beat world champs at endgame easily
FootofGod [3k\]: Small ones, but yes
]
;B[pk]BL[40]OB[7]C[FootofGod [3k\]: but middle game
Q161 [19k\]: endgame uses the least intuition archaic
Q161 [19k\]: look at chess programs early and middle game
Archaic [1d\]: well to get to the endgame
Q161 [19k\]: they have nothing
Higanbana [?\]: if nutngo gets behind, he should ask the computer 'what is 6 divided by 0'
]
;W[im]WL[40]OW[8]C[Archaic [1d\]: the prog has like a single pawn left
Q161 [19k\]: if you dont start a chess program with opening and middle theory it will take 5 days for 1 move
Archaic [1d\]: and beats the gm
aware [2k\]: ah.. ok - thx anyway...and no stress:)
Archaic [1d\]: so, to get to the point where it can have a single pawn left over the gm requires intuition no
]
;B[km]BL[40]OB[7]C[Zvi [3k\]: starting to look like black can resign
]
;W[jm]WL[40]OW[8]C[FootofGod [3k\]: ummm... yeah. King and pawn endgames are a part of chess
doduff [5k?\]: I bet computers will approach the strongest humans soon.
doduff [5k?\]: just need lots of memory and processing power
FootofGod [3k\]: the one with the pawn usually has an advantage
uuyf: w 4 corners w win
Zvi [3k\]: if this keeps as it was till now black will lose badly :/
Archaic [1d\]: well anyway myoshu means like global tesuji
FootofGod [3k\]: i thought 4 corners = lost
]
;B[kn]BL[40]OB[7]C[Archaic [1d\]: it is like a magnificent global tesuji
uuyf: that's for b
Higanbana [?\]: b doesn't even really have decent moyo..
Zvi [3k\]: when white has 4 corners black should resign. when black has 4 corners black should resign
ketchup [4k\]: j13
Archaic [1d\]: like the one shusaku played against this guy called the ear reddening move
Zvi [3k\]: =\\
Sampi [2k\]: b looks ahead tho
darkinochi [5k\]: not all the time i;ve lost four courners many time just gatta keep the opponent small
]
;W[kh]WL[40]OW[8]C[FootofGod [3k\]: his move was just as good. Almost better
uuyf: that's not a tesuj
eboesch [1k\]: 6/0 is too simple. Captain Kirk would say, "Now I am playing a game where the object is to lose! So am I winning or losing?"
Archaic [1d\]: and yes i was being sarcastic cause m13 stunk
uuyf: to win you must lose?
uuyf: wow that;s deep
]
;B[ig]BL[40]OB[7]C[mollycat [8k\]: no it isn't
ketchup [4k\]: j13 simply ftw~
ketchup [4k\]: O12
]
;W[lc]WL[40]OW[8]C[brainiaq [3k\]: i think this game is getting hard for w actually
Snowcone [-\]: mogo dislikes parallelograms
Snowcone [-\]: bad experience ^^
FootofGod [3k\]: eboesch-- Mac responds "something went wrong. I'm taking a nap."
ketchup [4k\]: b8 for black then?
]
;B[kg]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[ij]WL[40]OW[8]C[mmueller [4d?\]: Fuego says 73% for Black
aware [2k\]: whou
Zvi [3k\]: guego?
Zvi [3k\]: fuego ?
darkinochi [5k\]: in even game mogo wouldn't stand a chance, it needs some more work
]
;B[db]BL[40]OB[7]C[Archaic [1d\]: what's fuego
]
;W[cb]WL[40]OW[8]C[katori15 [5k\]: Mr SE has money on MoGo also
aware [2k\]: 73 is much
mollycat [8k\]: bots always root for bots
Snowcone [-\]: se also thinks e6 is dead, lol
Zahlman [1k\]: I feel like w has good chances
brainiaq [3k\]: well w is constantly making up points.  but b is slowly getting more solid, with less opportunity
]
;B[jd]BL[40]OB[7]C[Zahlman [1k\]: aware, that's a % win chance, not a lead
]
;W[je]WL[40]OW[8]C[aware [2k\]: i know :)
Q161 [19k\]: what does it say about the second move of the game
Q161 [19k\]: in terms of win % at that point
aware [2k\]: but i remember how the percentage always was around 50% on the 9x9s yesterday:)
]
;B[jc]BL[40]OB[7]C[juhop [-\]: But it's win chance against itself, not against pro :)
]
;W[kf]WL[40]OW[8]C[Archaic [1d\]: white r11?
mmueller [4d?\]: With handicap win % starts near 100%
]
;B[jh]BL[40]OB[7]C[aware [2k\]: oh..yeah.. wrong thinking by me.. makes sense
]
;W[he]WL[40]OW[8]C[yoyoma [1d\]: I think it would be interesting to try to tune a reverse-contempt factor for handicap games....
]
;B[ck]BL[40]OB[7]C[eoe [11k\]: wasn't it in the high 70s in the ladder game against tartrate
yoyoma [1d\]: Set a goal to lose the lead in poitns gradually
Archaic [1d\]: i have contempt for people too
yoyoma [1d\]: so it plays a little more aggressive in opening
]
;W[gf]WL[40]OW[8]C[yoyoma [1d\]: meh hard to explain in a couple sentances  :)
Archaic [1d\]: i have contempt for my opponent also yoyoma
yoyoma [1d\]: yes I got your joke haha
]
;B[ge]BL[40]OB[7]C[brainiaq [3k\]: c9 was big
antere [3k\]: not just big
antere [3k\]: huge
]
;W[hf]WL[40]OW[8]C[antere [3k\]: epic
mmueller [4d?\]: game is close, but B is solid everywhere
Isildur [4k\]: heh
antere [3k\]: s11 seems really big now
LSF23 [5k?\]: r10 for b
]
;B[ff]BL[40]OB[7]C[brainiaq [3k\]: what computer is running mogo?
Julian [2k\]: Solid everywhere except brain.
ketchup [4k\]: why not r11?
Meatex [2k\]: r10 is looking big now
Zvi [3k\]: s10 looks bigger
Archaic [1d\]: i guess...fuego just does chances based on its own perception
aware [2k\]: brainiaq> 640 cpu cluster of ibm 4.7ghz cpus :)
]
;W[gh]WL[40]OW[8]C[brainiaq [3k\]: so a blue gene?
Archaic [1d\]: when mogo makes a move it considers it from its own strength and when pro makes a response it also uses its own strength to determine % fuego?
antere [3k\]: ibm makes CPUs?
]
;B[fh]BL[40]OB[7]C[mmueller [4d?\]: 75%
]
;W[fg]WL[40]OW[8]
;B[eg]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[gg]WL[40]OW[8]C[aware [2k\]: i think it runs on a part of this machine: http://www.itjungle.com/tlb/tlb071508-story02.html
Isildur [4k\]: so, are we taking bets on B  letting k12 get surrounded?
]
;B[og]BL[40]OB[7]C[gogeno [-\]: anybody in here feel like helpin me any?
antere [3k\]: s11
Zvi [3k\]: helping you ?
Zvi [3k\]: what with ?
Zahlman [1k\]: at this point I think it's safe to bet on w winning :)
gogeno [-\]: lol GO
]
;W[of]WL[40]OW[8]C[Zvi [3k\]: well, how i mean :/
antere [3k\]: :(
antere [3k\]: pro won't listen to me
antere [3k\]: :,(
mmueller [4d?\]: I like B's chances now
]
;B[if]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[ie]WL[40]OW[8]C[gogeno [-\]: umm anything rly. im not very good at making eyes or seeing life and death
Archaic [1d\]: b seems to have a bit more
Cblanco [4d\]: nice timesuji
ketchup [4k\]: i honestly think white will win after that tenuki at p13..
Zvi [3k\]: what's your rank ?
Q161 [19k\]: whats timesuji?
juhop [-\]: w s11 can be answered by s10 
karasu [3d\]: b ahead?
ketchup [4k\]: time move basically q161
]
;B[pg]BL[40]OB[7]C[Zvi [3k\]: timesuji is when you play a forcing move to have more time to think
]
;W[qg]WL[40]OW[8]C[Q161 [19k\]: ah i see
FootofGod [3k\]: like expending a ko threat
gogeno [-\]: i dk what my rank is rly
ketchup [4k\]: around l10 i think..
Zahlman [1k\]: gogeno, but you mean something to do with go, right?
Zvi [3k\]: so why don't you get a rank go?
aware [2k\]: 75% this late in the game sounds indeed promising
carbon729 [3d\]: how strong is this soft which plays white?
gogeno [-\]: how do i do a rank go?
]
;B[pf]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[pe]WL[40]OW[8]C[Zvi [3k\]: remove the rank hiding in your info
aware [2k\]: carbon> w is a human.. 1p from taiwan:)
Zvi [3k\]: cause now your rank is hidden
Zahlman [1k\]: white is played by wetware, not software
Zvi [3k\]: then play some ranked games
carbon729 [3d\]: ah....
gogeno [-\]: it says like 16k but im not that good
Zvi [3k\]: so play some more to get a solid rank :p
carbon729 [3d\]: and black?
brainiaq [3k\]: w is computer from 10 years in the future
]
;B[fi]BL[40]OB[7]C[mmueller [4d?\]: Q14  
mmueller [4d?\]: was bad
FootofGod [3k\]: yeah, win or lose you'll eventually end up where you should be
Gikku [7k\]: so keep playing and if you're really weaker than 16k you'll slowly rank down to the rank you  really are
Gikku [7k\]: exactly as footogod says
]
;W[qj]WL[40]OW[8]C[gogeno [-\]: i lose every game i play
LSF23 [5k?\]: gogeon, ranks in kgs are 2-3 stones weaker
Sampi [2k\]: r10 was really big
Zahlman [1k\]: carbon, b is one of the best computer programs on some very powerful hardware
Zvi [3k\]: 2-3 stones weaker then what ?
Gikku [7k\]: you learn the best from losing =) just enjoy playing
Cblanco [4d\]: MoGo is going for .5
FootofGod [3k\]: then youll get some games with some stronger players before you end up where you should be
LSF23 [5k?\]: than nations rankings
]
;B[kl]BL[40]OB[7]C[antere [3k\]: 2-3 stones weaker than a ranking system that is 2-3 stones stronger
gogeno [-\]: oh i love playing 
uuyf: mogo needs 0.5
]
;W[jj]WL[40]OW[8]C[Zvi [3k\]: that's really smart antere ;/
antere [3k\]: exactly
Zvi [3k\]: lol
FootofGod [3k\]: just play and keep losing till you start winning
antere [3k\]: it's 100% correct
brainiaq [3k\]: nice move
]
;B[hi]BL[40]OB[7]
;W[es]WL[40]OW[8]C[carbon729 [3d\]: b seems good at 9x9 goban
]
;B[fm]BL[40]OB[7]C[Zahlman [1k\]: at last...
]
;W[fn]WL[40]OW[8]C[brainiaq [3k\]: supercomputer mogo is pro level on 9x9
vdust [3k\]: No.
Cujo [12k\]: so
Cujo [12k\]: what rank is the guy
Cujo [12k\]: playing the computer?
carbon729 [3d\]: but still far to go on 19 x 19
antere [3k\]: 1p
Adante [2d\]: 1p
]
;B[jl]BL[40]OB[7]C[Cujo [12k\]: k
]
;W[ik]WL[40]OW[8]C[antere [3k\]: but 1p and 9p not that different
Sampi [2k\]: its not really a guy... its a 12 year old kid :P
doduff [5k?\]: Is MoGo the strongest computer program currently?
Cujo [12k\]: crazy
chrono3450 [2d\]: no
uuyf: there was a comp that played a pro at us go congress no?
FootofGod [3k\]: what white is a 12 year old kid?
chrono3450 [2d\]: rapyuta is the strongest computer program currently
ketchup [4k\]: I'd say crazystone
Archaic [1d\]: sampi that age is inaccurate
Sampi [2k\]: doduff, i think so but nobody can say with 100% certainty
Zvi [3k\]: lol chorno
]
;B[gm]BL[40]OB[7]C[Archaic [1d\]: it's an 8 yr old kid
doduff [5k?\]: ah
]
;W[hm]WL[40]OW[8]C[Sampi [2k\]: 8, 12.. all the same ;)
juhop [-\]: mogo may be strongest but it's hard to compare when they always play on different hardware
ketchup [4k\]: 12 year old kid..
ketchup [4k\]: not 8..
carbon729 [3d\]: how strong is the best computer program on 19 x 19?
doduff [5k?\]: pretty amazing that computers are KGS dan range now!
Archaic [1d\]: wait this kid is 12?
]
;B[dn]BL[40]OB[7]C[ketchup [4k\]: yes
KTJL [11k?\]: yup 12
]
;W[do]WL[40]OW[8]C[Cujo [12k\]: did his parents raise him
Cujo [12k\]: playing go everyday
Zvi [3k\]: probably satan cujo
Zahlman [1k\]: carbon, judge for yourself, it's right here
Cujo [12k\]: breakfast lunch and dinner
Cujo [12k\]: lol
carbon729 [3d\]: this is the strongest one?
brainiaq [3k\]: it's really dependent on the computer running it
carbon729 [3d\]: seem like 1D or so on kgs.....
brainiaq [3k\]: this is a supercomputer
Foggy [18k\]: how do they decide handicap?
carbon729 [3d\]: difficult watching it playing against a pro
antere [3k\]: b escaped!
yoyoma [1d\]: so far none of the bots has managed to hold a kgs 1d rating for more than around 12 games
Zvi [3k\]: like a man
antere [3k\]: yep
antere [3k\]: that sore loser
Sampi [2k\]: carbon: the problem is it's strength depends on the time settings
brainiaq [3k\]: none of the bots run on 600 cores
doduff [5k?\]: still pretty amazing!
Sampi [2k\]: and the hardware
Foggy [18k\]: I feel safe just so long as we dont program go software that knows how to make better go software
doduff [5k?\]: I bet within a decade, strong dan bots!
Sampi [2k\]: if mogo had infitite time, it would be infinetly strong ;)
Mogo [-\]: GTP Engine for Mogo (black): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
antere [3k\]: I thought computers were better at blitz
Zvi [3k\]: intimidation again :|
Sampi [2k\]: if it had hours and hours it could be 4d maybe
antere [3k\]: at least that was the caes in chess
Sampi [2k\]: its not the case with MoGo
Q161 [19k\]: nope
Zvi [3k\]: chess is easier for them
antere [3k\]: lol
Q161 [19k\]: its not the case with chess either
]
;B[dm]BL[40]OB[5]C[antere [3k\]: yes it is
]
;W[eo]WL[40]OW[8]C[BrYanwithY [10k\]: ha
IcarusDes [5k\]: off course its easier :) 
Zvi [3k\]: in chess reading 10 moves ahead is easy for a bot and very hard for humans
carbon729 [3d\]: so you mean if we use the deep blue to run this soft, it'll be pro level?
uuyf: theoretically the more time has the better it plays yes
IcarusDes [5k\]: just bruteforce 
antere [3k\]: deep blue is not that fast
BrYanwithY [10k\]: this conversation was happening when I was watching mogo hours ago :)
Q161 [19k\]: chess programs work mainly by bruteforce
uuyf: with infinite time it will play a perfect game
BrYanwithY [10k\]: brute force....chess....same stuff :)
Q161 [19k\]: so the more time the have the better they are
Foggy [18k\]: different people are watching, bryanwithy
Q161 [19k\]: so in blitz they are worse
antere [3k\]: a good gaming computer is probably as fast as deep blue
]
;B[lb]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[mb]WL[40]OW[8]C[BrYanwithY [10k\]: I'm not criticizing :)
uuyf: we are all worse in blitz lol
Isildur [4k\]: so it would be unbeatable with limitless time..... unless it spent eternity just repeatiing its intro message
uuyf: but for comp less time means almost random moves
youth [4k\]: of course the chess program is worse in blitz, but compared to humans (which suck at blitz) it is much better
]
;B[qi]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[qh]WL[40]OW[8]C[Foggy [18k\]: yeah I have a feeling the move simulations are a diminishing-returns kind of thing
Q161 [19k\]: depends what level human
FootofGod [3k\]: computer chess is insane
brainiaq [3k\]: wow
Zahlman [1k\]: hmm randy likes b more and more
Foggy [18k\]: the first few thousand simulations, which it can do in seconds, put it ahead of humans in fast games
FootofGod [3k\]: unrealistic. Even just run-of-the mill programs all are about GM level
]
;B[pi]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[ri]WL[40]OW[8]C[FootofGod [3k\]: ...at times
antere [3k\]: ... no actually always
youth [4k\]: Q161, just check any chess server. the comps have higher ratings at blitz than standard time
antere [3k\]: even java chess programs are around 2000
antere [3k\]: which is master strength
juhop [-\]: it is well known it is 'diminishing return'
]
;B[da]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[ca]WL[40]OW[8]C[Mocramis [7k\]: no the high level mogo run on computers more much powerful tha mogo
Mocramis [7k\]: tha deep blue sorry ><'
Q161 [19k\]: kasparov lost to deep blue and beat more recent supercomputer programs in blitz
juhop [-\]: something like 4x simulations is 1 stone in strength
mmueller [4d?\]: D19 is silly, E19 is better endgame
]
;B[cm]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[dq]WL[40]OW[8]C[antere [3k\]: q161: problem is whether he does that all the time
antere [3k\]: remember, he lost to deep blue only 1 game
]
;B[gp]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[bn]WL[40]OW[8]C[yoyoma [1d\]: Is black still winning?  Seems it is right?
uuyf: s2
yank [?\]: Am I wrong? It seems MoGo still has a comfortable lead......
Q161 [19k\]: antere youre misinformed
brainiaq [3k\]: yea s2 problematic
brainiaq [3k\]: what about m9?
]
;B[ea]BL[40]OB[5]C[Q161 [19k\]: kasparov lost at least 2 games to deep blue that i recall specifically
mmueller [4d?\]: B lost some points but Fuego thinks still 75%
]
;W[gs]WL[40]OW[8]C[LSF23 [5k?\]: sure the bot leads lots
Zvi [3k\]: nice move
antere [3k\]: no q161: that was deepER blue
antere [3k\]: the second version
doduff [5k?\]: B11?
brainiaq [3k\]: they'r both blue gene machines.
doduff [5k?\]: for W
]
;B[hs]BL[40]OB[5]C[brainiaq [3k\]: new blue genes are faster
LSF23 [5k?\]: w needs lots of endgame mistakes from mogo to win
Zvi [3k\]: hmm ?
Q161 [19k\]: ??
Zvi [3k\]: h2 looks like it works
Robinsa [5k\]: ehm?
Q161 [19k\]: it was deep thought then deep blue
]
;W[lk]WL[40]OW[8]C[ketchup [4k\]: l12 getting big no?
antere [3k\]: deep thought is version 0
uuyf: endgame mistake from computer?
mmueller [4d?\]: ko
antere [3k\]: then deep blue in 1996
antere [3k\]: deeper blue in 1998
uuyf: isn't that more unlikely
Zvi [3k\]: h2 looks huge :/
Zahlman [1k\]: h2/g2 big?
]
;B[gr]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[mk]WL[40]OW[8]C[eoe [11k\]: h2g2 is pretty big for a trilogy
ketchup [4k\]: maybe white will get his kill after all
Q161 [19k\]: ok i just looked it up
Zvi [3k\]: kill what ?
Q161 [19k\]: deep blue beat kasparov twice
Q161 [19k\]: youre wrong
LSF23 [5k?\]: there is nothink to kill
antere [3k\]: which year
]
;B[nk]BL[40]OB[5]C[ketchup [4k\]: m13
]
;W[mm]WL[40]OW[8]C[youth [4k\]: look stop arguing about chess already
antere [3k\]: and which games
ketchup [4k\]: n11 here after this
Q161 [19k\]: look it up for yourself
Zvi [3k\]: i doubt m13 can die
antere [3k\]: lol
Q161 [19k\]: either way its irrelevant
uuyf: tell someone who cares 
brainiaq [3k\]: we needs to end this in sente
chipper [-\]: Please focus on the game
Q161 [19k\]: because more recent programs lost in blitz
]
;B[mn]BL[40]OB[5]C[brainiaq [3k\]: which is unlikely
uuyf: b gonna win within 5 or something
]
;W[nl]WL[40]OW[8]C[uuyf: but win probability getting close to 100 now
antere [3k\]: w sure likes that shape
Archaic [1d\]: he's not the only one
]
;B[ol]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[ml]WL[40]OW[8]
;B[bd]BL[40]OB[5]C[yoyoma [1d\]: Mogo loves these N6/O7/O9/N10 shapes
]
;W[bc]WL[40]OW[8]C[Mocramis [7k\]: if mogo is sure to win even by 0.5, he will not try to get more
brainiaq [3k\]: there's no way for mogo to be sure about that at this point
uuyf: but pretty sure now
]
;B[hk]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[il]WL[40]OW[8]C[doduff [5k?\]: B got sente
uuyf: l11
LSF23 [5k?\]: r2 is the biggest gote right?
brainiaq [3k\]: s2 bigger
mmueller [4d?\]: B has a safe lead I think
brainiaq [3k\]: i think
]
;B[kj]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[lj]WL[40]OW[8]C[Mocramis [7k\]: no
owlbudha [11k\]: wo6
Zvi [3k\]: ?
uuyf: o6 small
juhop [-\]: 6 stones win against a pro would be a new milestone
Mocramis [7k\]: but the probability will be at 99.99%
]
;B[ki]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[jk]WL[40]OW[8]
;B[mi]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[jn]WL[40]OW[8]C[Zvi [3k\]: l5 :o
Archaic [1d\]: l5
LSF23 [5k?\]: well white did nice reduction in blacks teritory
brainiaq [3k\]: not done
yank [?\]: W probably should resigm now.
]
;B[ko]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[jo]WL[40]OW[8]C[CHenchman [22k?\]: it's not really over though
Archaic [1d\]: b wins
]
;B[jp]BL[40]OB[5]C[doduff [5k?\]: not over until all dame filled! ;)
]
;W[nj]WL[40]OW[8]C[antere [3k\]: w win a miracle
Zvi [3k\]: sometimes it's over with a resign :o
Zvi [3k\]: usually really
yoyoma [1d\]: I'm so impressed at the style black won, I was so sure white could reduce the moyos easily
]
;B[mf]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[ok]WL[40]OW[8]C[Zahlman [1k\]: w made a lot of reduction on the top one
Archaic [1d\]: actually i dunno
Archaic [1d\]: maybe w win
mmueller [4d?\]: 80% now
]
;B[le]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[ke]WL[40]OW[8]C[FootofGod [3k\]: i can make up numbers too...
Archaic [1d\]: 80% to whom
mmueller [4d?\]: Fuego likes R2 for a while now
CHenchman [22k?\]: both
mmueller [4d?\]: Black
Cleasha [5d?\]: What is Fuego?
]
;B[md]BL[40]OB[5]C[Archaic [1d\]: a type of fondue
KTJL [11k?\]: ..
]
;W[nd]WL[40]OW[8]C[mmueller [4d?\]: Go program
Cleasha [5d?\]: Where are you using it Mmueller?
uuyf: seriously s2 already
mmueller [4d?\]: my laptop
]
;B[ni]BL[40]OB[5]C[yank [?\]: ~b+15
brainiaq [3k\]: e7
juhop [-\]: b will never play s2 if it wins with r1 
juhop [-\]: r2
]
;W[ln]WL[40]OW[8]C[Archaic [1d\]: except s2 better than r2
juhop [-\]: 'better'
]
;B[nn]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[lm]WL[40]OW[8]C[kago [2d?\]: mogo is my hero
uuyf: b endgame very very safe
]
;B[lo]BL[40]OB[5]C[uuyf: computer has no pride
uuyf: lol
]
;W[em]WL[40]OW[8]C[brainiaq [3k\]: this is big
Zvi [3k\]: his intimidation tactic payed off
yoyoma [1d\]: I dunno safe?  All those single stones in this O6 area, cuts everywhere
]
;B[el]BL[40]OB[5]C[Sampi [2k\]: f9 
]
;W[fl]WL[40]OW[8]C[Sampi [2k\]: ?!
antere [3k\]: sac 2 stones
Zvi [3k\]: g9 ?
Sampi [2k\]: crazy robot
Zvi [3k\]: oh
Zvi [3k\]: can't g9
Zvi [3k\]: e9 :\\
Archaic [1d\]: this way maybe b gets b7?
FootofGod [3k\]: f9
Mocramis [7k\]: hehe but its only 5-7points
FootofGod [3k\]: win
]
;B[bm]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[gl]WL[40]OW[8]C[Archaic [1d\]: b12
kago [2d?\]: it tries to make .5 game
Zvi [3k\]: f9 looks important
]
;B[qr]BL[40]OB[5]C[eoe [11k\]: :)
yank [?\]: Game over.
Archaic [1d\]: ..
Archaic [1d\]: how is r2 possibly better than s2
Zvi [3k\]: why r2:\\?
Zvi [3k\]: maybe it wants to keep sente ..
FootofGod [3k\]: sente
]
;W[bh]WL[40]OW[8]C[ketchup [4k\]: mogo doestn care about which is bigger
ketchup [4k\]: just that he wins
Archaic [1d\]: maybe that also
Mocramis [7k\]: yes
mmueller [4d?\]: R2 is solid :)
eoe [11k\]: ketchup, they tend to be somewhat related
doduff [5k?\]: why B12 instead of B11?
]
;B[bi]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[ai]WL[40]OW[8]C[uuyf: maybe we should adopt that style
FootofGod [3k\]: if he can see a way for no winning variations, he will not look for one with no winning variations +3 points
uuyf: after all a win is a win
ketchup [4k\]: eoe, i am speaking of r2 vs s2
Mocramis [7k\]: mogo chose the path where the rate win/lost is the higer
]
;B[bj]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[am]WL[40]OW[8]C[juhop [-\]: it is allowed t play safe even for a human
juhop [-\]: it is not bad :)
ketchup [4k\]: we just dont
ketchup [4k\]: pride and ego :)
yank [?\]: MoGo is doing that +0.5 trick again. I hate it. 
]
;B[la]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[nf]WL[40]OW[8]C[Zvi [3k\]: why is going to ko ?
Zvi [3k\]: white*
Archaic [1d\]: the programmers need to eventually program some pride into this bot
ttonndaa [5k\]: yes
ketchup [4k\]: b wont let him
ketchup [4k\]: too funny
FootofGod [3k\]: n15
Archaic [1d\]: and make it so that when he loses he tries to save face and lose by as little as possible
]
;B[ng]BL[40]OB[5]C[Demon [2d\]: n15 bad?
Mocramis [7k\]: ko is a thing that mogo hate
FootofGod [3k\]: he seems to be inviting it
ketchup [4k\]: very weird
ketchup [4k\]: that ko turns big
mmueller [4d?\]: S3 big too
FootofGod [3k\]: why would a computer hate a ko? it is the most numerically easy thing for a machine
FootofGod [3k\]: thats all it can do is freaking count
FootofGod [3k\]: and add
antere [3k\]: no its not
mmueller [4d?\]: ko is hard for computers too
]
;W[ef]WL[40]OW[7]C[juhop [-\]: ko is a whole board fight that is hard i think
Mocramis [7k\]: I think that it's like infinite
Mocramis [7k\]: ko double the possibles games
aware [2k\]: e14 for kothreats or timesuji to think?
]
;B[fe]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[eh]WL[40]OW[7]C[aware [2k\]: think=count
Mocramis [7k\]: each moves, you could take back the ko
FootofGod [3k\]: local kos do not seem like they are hard for computers. That does not make sense
Zahlman [1k\]: w?!
katori15 [5k\]: computer may just play a big move not looking at the ko
Zahlman [1k\]: wasting ko threats?
Mocramis [7k\]: of course
]
;B[dg]BL[40]OB[5]C[doduff [5k?\]: think = try to minimize free energy
]
;W[me]WL[40]OW[7]C[FootofGod [3k\]: who would not program a ko recognition locig in their program?
FootofGod [3k\]: *logic
Mocramis [7k\]: but bigs ko troubles mogo...
Zahlman [1k\]: almost everyone, footofgod
Mocramis [7k\]: here it isn't
Zahlman [1k\]: it's quite hard compared to the rest
Archaic [1d\]: that's what's annoying
FootofGod [3k\]: yeah, BIG kos. Not this one. This one is very straightforward
]
;B[ne]BL[40]OB[5]C[Archaic [1d\]: pros sometimes seem like they are wasting threats
]
;W[kb]WL[40]OW[7]C[Mocramis [7k\]: yes
Archaic [1d\]: and it's not a timesuji but perhaps this time it is
Demon [2d\]: if it was timesuji for w then why play it so quickly?
Zahlman [1k\]: a 12yo plays timesujis?
Archaic [1d\]: don't know what possibly they would waste threats for if they weren't playing timesujis
]
;B[jb]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[me]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zahlman [1k\]: that's some great pro training they get then
FootofGod [3k\]: then n15 ko is something that mogo should know the outcome to within 10 seconds of seeing it
antere [3k\]: why
ketchup [4k\]: f1 or s3?
katori15 [5k\]: filling would force n17 
antere [3k\]: I think ko bad for computer
]
;B[rr]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[lf]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zahlman [1k\]: footofgod, you might think so, but you've never tried to program these things
FootofGod [3k\]: it is an endgame ko. a numeric exchange. Computers thrive at endgames and numbers
antere [3k\]: ...
antere [3k\]: do you know the numbers involved
juhop [-\]: 1, 2, 3, ...
Foggy [18k\]: footofgod is a computer, I trust him
]
;B[al]BL[40]OB[5]C[Korlon [2k\]: Going to be close
FootofGod [3k\]: 1 and 0
antere [3k\]: human brain is good at patterns at a level a computer can't match
FootofGod [3k\]:  :)
]
;W[an]WL[40]OW[7]C[Archaic [1d\]: yea that's why it's annoying when u see a pro wasting threats in a 10 hr game
Archaic [1d\]: can't find any reason why they would do so
Mocramis [7k\]: about 361!
Archaic [1d\]: and it just reminds me all the more how much they are above me and how i will never be able to kiss their feet
]
;B[fk]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[mg]WL[40]OW[7]C[ketchup [4k\]: ?
FootofGod [3k\]: pros think different. Like a different wavelength or somn
Slowdive [10k\]: so who's playing as white?
FootofGod [3k\]: maybe they are vegitables. Very, very smart vegitables
CHOWstyle [3k\]: mogo will  lose
ketchup [4k\]: li-chen chien is playing as white
Q161 [19k\]: Li-Chen Chien
]
;B[mh]BL[40]OB[5]C[Archaic [1d\]: *correction, how i will never get them to kiss my feet
]
;W[ho]WL[40]OW[7]C[Mocramis [7k\]: how about D8 E8 ?
Mocramis [7k\]: D8B8 sorry
FootofGod [3k\]: i think mogo will win by 2.5
]
;B[ip]BL[40]OB[5]C[kago [2d?\]: looking for .5
]
;W[jf]WL[40]OW[7]C[yank [?\]: mmueller, what's the probability now?
Archaic [1d\]: i don't see any reason why it would purposely look for .5
aware [2k\]: programmed that way:)
]
;B[hh]BL[40]OB[5]C[Demon [2d\]: maybe programmed to be a jerk like that?
Archaic [1d\]: ah yea
Archaic [1d\]: good point
]
;W[jg]WL[40]OW[7]C[mmueller [4d?\]: 85%
Archaic [1d\]: the programmer decided to infuse a bit of his personality into the machine
FootofGod [3k\]: ko fight!!!---!---!----!!!
]
;B[mf]BL[40]OB[5]C[Kallisto [19k\]: why are here so many ppl?? :O
]
;W[rq]WL[40]OW[7]C[Demon [2d\]: nutngo = strong amateurs / pro
ketchup [4k\]: only 135 , not so many
KTJL [11k?\]: because it is a cpu vs human match
]
;B[ds]BL[40]OB[5]C[doduff [5k?\]: ive never seen bot play this level b4
]
;W[cs]WL[40]OW[7]C[vdust [3k\]: nutngo is 1p
carbon729 [3d\]: maybe on 9X 9 is strong...
Zahlman [1k\]: b8+d8 weak...
carbon729 [3d\]: but on 19 x 19....still weak
kago [2d?\]: we are waiting for cpu beat human so we can quit ^^
Zvi [3k\]: what is c1 ?
Zahlman [1k\]: d1 is a net loss
Demon [2d\]: check nutngo's info for past games played by nutngo and who he was in those games
Archaic [1d\]: d1 is timesuji
CHOWstyle [3k\]: d1 was funny
]
;B[sq]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[sp]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zahlman [1k\]: c1 is insuring against b c1
FootofGod [3k\]: no, we would not quit. The goal would just switch
brainiaq [3k\]: why is d8 b8 weak?
Archaic [1d\]: i doubt the bot knows how to waste ko threats in an unknown manner as pros do
FootofGod [3k\]: then it would be human goal to beat computer
FootofGod [3k\]: humans never quit
Zvi [3k\]: what can black possibly do with c1 ?
CHOWstyle [3k\]: why not just capture
Zahlman [1k\]: because w can atari at one, then double atari at the other brain?
Zvi [3k\]: and why isn't d1 better ?
]
;B[oj]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[mg]WL[40]OW[7]C[brainiaq [3k\]: oh, you mean b's shape is weak
vdust [3k\]: Zvi: black played d1...
brainiaq [3k\]: i thought you mean w would be weak to play it
Demon [2d\]: well c1, d1, b must take at f1
Zvi [3k\]: oh sorry
Zahlman [1k\]: zvi, b played d1. It was bad, but it was sente: if he plays both c1 and d1, he gains.
Zvi [3k\]: was away for a minute
Demon [2d\]: d1, c1, b doesn't have to take ;P
Zvi [3k\]: sorry
doduff [5k?\]: W B8 or D8 soon?
]
;B[lh]BL[40]OB[5]C[yank [?\]: Chien was last year's world amateur champ in Go.
Zahlman [1k\]: o9
]
;W[sr]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zvi [3k\]: o9 looks really big
antere [3k\]: 4 point gote either way
antere [3k\]: doesn't look big
Archaic [1d\]: i don't understand what that flood was
]
;B[nk]BL[40]OB[5]C[Zvi [3k\]: b8 isn't small either
]
;W[ma]WL[40]OW[7]C[ttonndaa [5k\]: B8 big also?
Archaic [1d\]: but it would seem that f1 would be a better timesuji anyway
Zahlman [1k\]: about the same size as t2
darkinochi [5k\]: a9 looks fun
Archaic [1d\]: o nm
Zvi [3k\]: b8 looks like more fun to me
Archaic [1d\]: d1 was timesuji i guess 
antere [3k\]: d8 looks extra fun!
Archaic [1d\]: cause he could've extended to c1
]
;B[ka]BL[40]OB[5]C[vdust [3k\]: b8 for white, a9 for black
]
;W[bl]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zahlman [1k\]: \\o/
]
;B[cl]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[ak]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zvi [3k\]: looks like whtie is close, but not nearly enough points :o
antere [3k\]: b going for 0.5 lol
Archaic [1d\]: looks like d1 was a timesuji?
gogeno [16k?\]: whats 0.5?
Archaic [1d\]: because d1....doesn't lose black a point
KTJL [11k?\]: 0.5 pt win
gogeno [16k?\]: and a timesuji?
]
;B[aj]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[ah]WL[40]OW[7]C[Q161 [19k\]: 0.5 win = i cry myself to sleep
Dreamlight [17k\]: What's wrong with q12?
Zahlman [1k\]: d1 loses sente-ness of f1
gogeno [16k?\]: lol
Zahlman [1k\]: reduces the follow-up value, you know
]
;B[hj]BL[40]OB[5]
;W[ph]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zahlman [1k\]: dream, it's just not as big
gogeno [16k?\]: kinda get what u mean
Archaic [1d\]: i guess it was a timesuji
Zahlman [1k\]: but there you go. :)
Archaic [1d\]: cause black could've extended to c1
Dreamlight [17k\]: Oh, I didn't see f1.
Zahlman [1k\]: at this level they are very precise.
yoyoma [1d\]: Yes where is Bill Spight he can tell us how much chilled value bD1 lost  :)
Archaic [1d\]: if black uses f1 for a timesuji
Archaic [1d\]: it doesn't work
]
;B[oh]BL[40]OB[5]C[Archaic [1d\]: dunno
eoe [11k\]: timesuji?
Zahlman [1k\]: bill spight is my hero
gogeno [16k?\]: yea whats that?
]
;W[hg]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zvi [3k\]: :S?
Zvi [3k\]: why h13 ?
Zahlman [1k\]: timesuji of course
juhop [-\]: b cannot use timesuji
]
;B[ih]BL[40]OB[5]C[doduff [5k?\]: a net 0 move that wastes time? for thinking?
juhop [-\]: it won't remember what it thought on last move anyway
juhop [-\]: I believe
antere [3k\]: it will
]
;W[hd]WL[40]OW[7]C[vdust [3k\]: white is using black time to think =)
antere [3k\]: it will remember what it thought for the move that was chosen
Mocramis [7k\]: mogo +1.5 or 3.5
Demon [2d\]: it's 1.5 mocr
Mocramis [7k\]: depends of the S1 ko
yoyoma [1d\]: juhop I think it can carry forward part of the tree
Zvi [3k\]: i think it's more like 4.5
Demon [2d\]: ko at n14 also
Zvi [3k\]: oh sorry, nvm
]
;B[fs]BL[40]OB[5]C[juhop [-\]: mogo thinks on opponents time, that I know
Zahlman [1k\]: omg I only now noticed it's chinese counting...
]
;W[ds]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zvi [3k\]: it is? :O
aware [2k\]: :)
Zvi [3k\]: so white win lol
Demon [2d\]: no
antere [3k\]: ...
Q161 [19k\]: ...
Demon [2d\]: b+1.5
Zahlman [1k\]: lol no
yoyoma [1d\]: yeah so I assume it can carry forward thinknig for many moves as long as that part of the tree still is in the game
]
;B[bk]BL[40]OB[5]C[Zahlman [1k\]: bots are stong at playing for area score
]
;W[al]WL[40]OW[7]C[Archaic [1d\]: d1 stumper
Zahlman [1k\]: s1
]
;B[rs]BL[40]OB[5]C[Archaic [1d\]: yea
]
;W[mf]WL[40]OW[7]C[Archaic [1d\]: these kos for area counting
Archaic [1d\]: are confusing
Archaic [1d\]: 1 pt kos turn into 2 pts
Archaic [1d\]: in area counting
KTJL [11k?\]: pass
Zahlman [1k\]: t1
Zvi [3k\]: t1
ketchup [4k\]: b+2.5 or so?
ketchup [4k\]: or is it 3.5..
]
;B[li]BL[40]OB[5]C[Demon [2d\]: it's 1.5
]
;W[sq]WL[40]OW[7]C[Zvi [3k\]: ha??
Zvi [3k\]: 53 ?
Slowdive [10k\]: so you get points for filling dame?
Zvi [3k\]: t3?
yoyoma [1d\]: b+3.5
ketchup [4k\]: dame count
Zvi [3k\]: why not r5 ?
Demon [2d\]: yes
Archaic [1d\]: yea u get points for dame
Dreamlight [17k\]: In Chinese rules dame count.
doduff [5k?\]: yes dame = score
]
;B[ii]BL[40]OB[5]C[yoyoma [1d\]: unless mogo does silly territory filling to make it less  :)
Slowdive [10k\]: sounds stupid for some reason
]
;W[qo]WL[40]OW[7]C[Archaic [1d\]: in the end it's either that if white gets the last dame  he gets an even # of dame points
antere [3k\]: actually
Archaic [1d\]: if black gets last dame black gets +1 dame
FootofGod [3k\]: japanese = faster chinese - more accurate
Archaic [1d\]: dame stones alone not territory
doduff [5k?\]: and filling in own territory doesnt matter either!
antere [3k\]: chinese and japanese rules are equal except for seki with eyes
]
;B[ll]BL[40]OB[5]C[Archaic [1d\]: i dunno
]
;W[]WL[40]OW[7]
;B[]BL[40]OB[5]TW[aa][ba][na][oa][pa][qa][ra][sa][ab][bb][nb][ob][pb][qb][rb][sb][ac][mc][oc][pc][rc][sc][ad][bd][md][od][pd][qd][rd][sd][ae][le][ne][qe][re][se][af][rf][sf][ag][rg][sg][rh][sh][si][rj][sj][rk][sk][rl][sl][fm][gm][sm][sn][ao][bo][co][so][ap][bp][rp][aq][bq][ar][br][cr][as][bs]TB[fa][ga][ha][ia][ja][eb][gb][hb][ib][kb][fc][de][ee][df][ef][dh][eh][kh][nh][ci][di][ei][oi][cj][ej][fj][gj][nj][dk][ek][ok][dl][om][pm][on][pn][mo][no][oo][kp][lp][mp][np][op][fq][iq][jq][lq][mq][nq][oq][fr][hr][ir][jr][kr][lr][mr][nr][or][gs][is][js][ks][ls][ms][ns][os][ps][qs]C[Zahlman [1k\]: paging sum... :)
FootofGod [3k\]: ...and really theyre the same, but... for human counting purposes
ketchup [4k\]: the end result is the same
Archaic [1d\]: they are equal except for dame
inte [?\]: doduff, that's only true after all dame have been filled
Zvi [3k\]: t1 =\\??
youth [4k\]: t1!
Archaic [1d\]: seki...it might be same
Zvi [3k\]: t1 :/
doduff [5k?\]: true
antere [3k\]: seki with eyes no
FootofGod [3k\]: more accurate for when humans are counting. Easier.
Slowdive [10k\]: lol
inthecage [1k\]: ti1 g16 miai
Archaic [1d\]: oooo
Demon [2d\]: seki would be different
Dreamlight [17k\]: The human lost *sigh*
Zahlman [1k\]: also g16
Snowcone [-\]: semedori dame
antere [3k\]: and dame also the same in chinese and japanese
Zahlman [1k\]: they are split
FootofGod [3k\]: OHHH
aware [2k\]: nice
Zvi [3k\]: t1? :(
doduff [5k?\]: KGS scores seki with eyes in japanese though, doesnt it?
FootofGod [3k\]: WHO CALLED IT?
sulusepken [6k\]: go mogo your are the best
sulusepken [6k\]: hehe
FootofGod [3k\]: Give it up to foot!
antere [3k\]: if you want it to dod
eoe [11k\]: :) mogo
kago [2d?\]: mogo is my hero
Archaic [1d\]: no dame is different
aware [2k\]: mmueller> thx for the updates on the percentages from fuego !
Archaic [1d\]: from japanese and chinese
Archaic [1d\]: dang i clicked the box close by accident
Zvi [3k\]: this was long
vdust [3k\]: Mogo with a lot of computational power is good :)
gogeno [16k?\]: lol what is a dame guys?
vdust [3k\]: But it's always weak on my laptop :s
Dreamlight [17k\]: Dame is a neutral point.
Archaic [1d\]: noo
vdust [3k\]: T1 or G16 are dame
gogeno [16k?\]: o
Archaic [1d\]: i clicked the box close
Archaic [1d\]: can someone tell me the details of the score
Q161 [19k\]: B +2.5
Archaic [1d\]: no..
Archaic [1d\]: the box that popped up
Dreamlight [17k\]: Black 184, white 181½.
Archaic [1d\]: full info
Dreamlight [17k\]: Anyway, I have to skedaddle.
Dreamlight [17k\]: Good night (or whatever where you are), y'all.
doduff [5k?\]: End when 2 dame left typical?
Archaic [1d\]: well anyway
Archaic [1d\]: since black gets last dame
Archaic [1d\]: yea he gets an extra point
vdust [3k\]: well... if one play the first, the other play the second one. so, it doesn't matter.
Archaic [1d\]: a free point
doduff [5k?\]: net 0 change
Archaic [1d\]: no
Archaic [1d\]: cu
])
